Josh 0:06
I love when we get questions from people, it helps us. It gives us ideas about where we’re connecting, where we’re not connecting with this podcast. And recently, we got a question from somebody who was reading a blog I’d written. And she said that she said, I have had several people say to me that the reason I’m still falling, and I think she’s talking about sexual sin, the reason I’m still falling into sexual sin is because I haven’t prayed hard enough, or I need to be delivered. Or I keep speaking death over myself by claiming I struggle with these things. Many times these people struggled with the same thing, but were set free immediately. And it just kind of makes me confused. Why does God set one free from sin and stronghold immediately? And not another? a great question. And we’re going to talk about that in this podcast. So if you yourself have struggled with an area of sexual sin or another area of sin, and watched other people gain freedom, and that’s a confusing thing or a difficult thing for you? Or if you have a loved one who just seems like their struggles going on longer than you think it should. Why is that when other people seem to keep getting better, we’re gonna try to tackle that kit Elmer and I, we’ve, we’ve experienced some of that in our own lives. And we’ve walked people who have experienced that, so we’re gonna do our best to navigate a compassionate and truthful answer to the question kit. What What comes to mind for you? First of all, even before we get maybe, to some of the ways we’d answer the question, what are some of the minefields kind of surrounding the question? What? Can you hear some things? And maybe this woman’s question that,

Kit 1:36
gosh, you know, Josh, I just felt the pain, I felt such such pain in her question. And my heart, it was really very, very sad and, and just feeling her despair. And, and when people well, meaning people say you just have to pray hurt, or you’re just it’s because you’re doing this, you’re not doing that. That’s such a hard you, then you start to own that this is this thing you earned that this is this thing you do. And so even though there are choices we make, and there are things we do, there also is a lot of mystery here. And I think we have to be really careful what we say to people because you know, this, obviously, this woman feels very less than because she’s not experiencing what other people experience. And that could have nothing to do with her, it could be a very different kind of experience that God has for her.

Josh 2:30
Yeah. And that’s why I want us to start, I’m glad you went there. Because I think there’s an interpretation about why it’s happening. And we’ll talk about some of the reasons why it might be happening. But I think one of the initial interpretations has to do with either a person’s sense of their own value and worth, it’s happened in other person and not to me, because that person is closer to God than me, they have more faith in me they are, they deserve it more they, they have more self control data. Or they go to a place where they’re interpreting and making assumptions about God, God cares more for this other person. God loves them more, God listens to them more, God is more concerned about them, God has a greater calling on that person’s life XYZ. And I think that’s, that’s an indicator, when when we start interpreting our experience of not being set free from something, and we begin interpreting it with an angle that either accuses us or accuses God, of being of being less than, than we are less than God is. That’s an indicator the enemy is getting his own opinion in there in a way that’s unhelpful. And to me, that’s, that’s a foundationally foundationally important piece of this puzzle. Because if we skip over that, and a person gets well, finds themselves the next day doing better, then they’re limping around without realizing it. They have this misperception of the love and the care that God has always had for them even a midst of their struggle.

Kit 4:01
Yes. Isn’t that just so vitally important, like we have to do if I don’t believe that God is with me, no matter what, then then my faith becomes so conditional. And, you know, if we think bad things happen to bad people, that’s just not true. There’s just a lot.

Josh 4:21
It’s true. It’s just that bad things happen to good people, too.

Kit 4:23
Right? Exactly. It’s, it’s not just that only only bad things happen to bad people, it happens, all of us have experiences. And so we just have to be careful, right about the mystery of all of this. Respecting that there are things we just don’t know. And so those of us that are well intentioned talking to people we have to really you know, sometimes I just say, I don’t know, these these there really are mysteries, and then we talk about, we wonder about what else might be going on but it is So important not to send a message to somebody that it’s something they are doing or not doing. It’s all up to them. We do want to encourage them to, to pay attention to what they might God might be asking them to do for sure. But it’s not that simple.

Josh 5:16
Yeah. So if you’re listening, and you and you’re walking with somebody, and maybe you’ve been set free from something, and just really struggling personally, like why, why is it not taking for this other person? Why? Why is he taking so long, we want to urge you with just this simple truth, and this is where we’ll start and we’re going to move on. But the way God heals one person is not the way he necessarily heals every person, the way God sets one person free. Does that mean he sets every person free that way, the man who started regeneration, over 40 years ago, had a very miraculous experience with the Lord where he was set free from some of his homosexual behavior immediately when he came to Christ. And he walked then for years and years and years with so many people who did not experience freedom in the same way that he did. And that’s just a reality of life. Look through the Gospels. Jesus heals some people, by laying hands on them, some people by spitting in their eyes, some people on the ground making mud, some people by just speaking a word, some people are healed, because they come up and touch him. Some people are healed because he tells them to go do something and they go do it. And they find they’re healed on the way. Jesus works in different ways in different people’s lives. And that is a good thing. And it’s my personal opinion, if I could, if I could go here. I think that when one person is healed immediately, it’s not meant to be a blueprint about how everybody’s healed. But it is a it is meant to be a gift, not just for that person. It’s meant to be a gift to everybody. It’s it’s meant to stoke our faith, realize, God really does set people free. God really does care about this area of my life. And I think it’s also meant to incite a bit of desire in us. Because otherwise, we might be prone to like, well, I guess this is just my lot in life. And I’m always going to remain here, I think when so if this young woman looks at other people in her life and sees that they’re walking in freedom, or she’s not. That the the longing to find freedom, and the longing to have the freedom that she I hope that that seeing other people walk in freedom can give her some hope that that’s, that’s still available for her. Maybe not the same way, maybe not the same time. But it’s still available. I believe that it’s that God’s heart, which is much more ecumenical and generous. Most of ours doesn’t go to competing in comparison with those kinds of things. I think, I think he’s, he’s like, it. It’s it’s meant to be a gift all of us in some way. That making sense of it,

Kit 7:45
ya no, and I think I think it’s interesting, because I think that is really true. And I think if we receive that as a gift, and if we say this is, this was a gift, this is this was the work of the Holy Spirit. It’s not because I did this, or did that or did this, even though I might have done some things, but it’s a gift. It is a gift, and so I’m not going to take credit for it. I’m going to just rejoice if we rejoice in it that way, then it then it is a spiritual impartation that we, you know, pass on to others, which is a very different thing.

Josh 8:19
Yeah, yes. So there are two sides of the person who’s healed the person who is waiting to be healed, waiting for healing, the person who said free person is who is waiting to be set free. Yeah.

Kit 8:27
And also, it’s also I was thinking when you were saying that it’s a gift when that happens. The interesting thing is also Josh, my desperation that I’ve experienced in my life has, has also been a gift in some ways to me and to others. When I sit with someone, and they’re telling me about their pain and their desperation, when I recall mine, and I recall how God met me there maybe didn’t heal me, but met me there. I can say, I understand. And I’m not just saying it, I connect with them, and hear their pain, and hear and can say to them, and God wants to meet you there. And that’s a gift. It’s a gift that God gave to me and that I can pass on to others.

Josh 9:17
Well, I think part of what you’re stirring up there as well kid is is there are different layers of what needs to be sanctify what needs healing, transformation in our lives, like yeah, you know, our physical health, our freedom from sexual sin are our freedom from other unhealthy habits, what, like, that’s one layer, but there’s also the layer of of pride. There’s also the layer of what do I believe is true about God? And yes, I know there are people who have been set free from some forever horrendous things, who still walk around with an idea of God that is just so often so misaligned with the truth of who he is. It’s true or who are That free in one area of their lives and still really struggle in another area of their lives. And so yeah, so what you just described was, was a, an interior healing a, an interior awareness of God, a sacred intimacy with God and a place of sorrow or suffering or struggle that we’re Gods present to you meant something to you even as the as the struggle persisted. And that’s a gift that you have now to share with somebody else.

Kit 10:32
And so how does this woman who wrote in such such a, such a beautiful honest crying out, helped me understand this? How does she think about her struggle? How does she think about God? Like, you know, just not saying, Give her a paragraph? And she’s good to go? But like, how can we? How can we think about this and wonder about this together with her in a way that might be helpful?

Josh 11:02
I think what we started with, I mean, that I think there’s a deeper question she’s asking, and some of it might have to do with the relationship with these other people in life. Some of it may have to do I think has to do with a relationship with God. God, what do you think of me? In my struggle? Do you feel about me as I struggle? I keep falling in. Those are the words she used. I you know, I keep falling, Lord. What do you how do you feel about me? Yeah, and I fall?

Kit 11:30
Yeah, I think that’s right, Josh.

Josh 11:32
Because I, because I think so many of us, and I don’t know if it’s unique to sexual sin or other sins, too. But I think around sexual sin, there can be such self hatred, when we fall such angered ourselves, disappointment, feel so dirty and different. I mean, I’m speaking for myself, that’s how I used to feel. And to find that God’s response is not. That’s not his response. Oh, you’re so dirty. Oh, You disgust me? Oh, get away from me. I don’t want I, I give me so many chances. Why do you keep doing that’s not the voice of God. But the God’s response is, Oh, sweetie, you fell down again. Let me help you up. Let me brush you off. It’s my joy to make you clean. I see who you are. And I see who I see who you are, from the perspective of who you’re becoming Not, not the false you’ve had? And I think something along those lines, how, how is she connecting with God in those?

Kit 12:28
Yeah, and those are those are such significant, you know, ways that we think about that, that really affect how we move forward in our life, how we see God, how we think he sees us, you know, if we think that when we fall, that God stands over us and goes, Well, if you’ve only done what I said, you know, and kind of at status and moves on, you know, like, Oh, my gosh, you know, like, what that will do to us versus seeing God coming alongside us and saying, Here, I know, I see you, I see that you fell. Give me your hand. Let’s get back up. Let’s keep moving. Let me remind you that I love you. And I believe in you. Wow. So how, how do we get there? Josh? How do we begin to believe different things about who God is, to us who he is, you know, really in his character.

Josh 13:28
In this, this is one of those. So we’ve just made a thesis claim in this podcast that if I could put it this way that however, badly, we may feel about a certain area of sin in our lives, including sin, sometimes that that does harm to us or to others. There are times where where God sees and you kind of imagine somebody who comes into triage, and he says, there’s actually something more important I want to deal with first. That can be that can be hard to believe. But what we’ve named here is just even a person’s idea of what God is like their own experience. And, and so in my experience, and this is precisely where I was years ago, where I had this, this, I became convinced eventually that the reason that God did not snap his fingers and take away my sin was it was a grace that he didn’t because if he had I really would have had a contorted view of how he felt about me and who he was. And I would have been passing that along to other people. And and I’m grateful to know him differently than that and but the only way I could learn that was by walking with people who recognize his loving care, His grace available for me. The fact that Romans two four is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. It is the kindness of God leads us to repentance. So you still falling What do you need, you need God’s kindness that that’s something that you don’t, that’s not just head knowledge you need it’s experiential that you need and that’s important. Paul tries to tease that out as he moves forward in Romans, God’s kindness and grace and how that transforms us and what we’re meant to live by. And he wrestles with it even comes to points where he says, Listen, don’t miss hear me, I’m not saying it, that means it’s okay to just go and keep sinning. So the grace may abound. That’s not what I’m saying. But I am saying that you can’t outrun God’s grace. And so if you are still falling, then the best thing you can do is practice receiving what is true about God, which is His grace and kindness or yours through Christ Jesus. And, and, and do that with other people. Let them let see that in reflecting other people’s faces, see, hear that in the tone of voices other people use. And if this woman is surrounded by people who who cannot give her that, in the midst of a struggle, she needs to find some people who are Yeah, now. Now with that said, I also want us to make sure that we do leave time to talk about some very practical reasons that some of you may continue to struggle.

Kit 15:59
Yeah,

Josh 16:00
as I read through the list that, you know, that our friends share with her, I do see that there in people’s lives, there can be grains of truth in what these people are saying. And so we can, we can talk about that. But notice, we’re almost 15 minutes in this podcast, and only now we’re acknowledging that because this other stuff is so vitally important. And if we don’t, if we don’t get our, our hearts and our heads around that, then we can really do harm to ourselves and to one another.

Kit 16:27
Now, I often say to myself into people that I, you know, work with and meet with it. This healing journey is very much about the power of the Holy Spirit to heal. Yeah. And it is about informed choices that we can make, and being paying attention to what we’re doing really paying attention to what we’re doing, what we’re not doing choices we’re making. And so it’s it’s it’s a both and kind of thing that both are really important.

Josh 17:03
Yeah, yeah. So can we spend a few minutes talking about Okay, if you’re still struggling? Here’s some things you might want to, in addition to deepen your, your new thesis. What are some other areas you might look at? Let’s talk about the that idea that I wouldn’t use same language that sounds like people have used with her, but just the the, the struggle language, the, you know, speaking kind of failure over ourselves, yes. This is something I struggle with is something I do. The way I would talk about that is there are some times where we make unholy agreements about our condition. Where are we? And I think people can even do this sometimes when they refer to what they’re doing as this is my struggle. I think there can be a posture, and we need discernment here. But a posture of the heart that says I’m always going to struggle like this. Whenever we’re saying something like, I’m always going to do something, I’m always going to be like this. That’s pretty dangerous territory. I mean, we don’t know the future. We can’t even you know, control. Jesus talks about you can’t even control the hairs in your head turning different color, like, sorry, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t help them turn gray, you can you can do today, you go to the borrower, or their salon. So, so just watch those agreements, the subtle agreements, but but powerful agreements about who you are and what what you’re actually capable of.

Kit 18:32
Yes. You know, there’s a big difference between saying yourself, I’m worthless, and saying, I have an issue, you know, transparency, acknowledging I’ve got weaknesses, I’ve got issues, I need to be honest with this. Versus I’m worthless, you know, I’m inherently flawed. And, you know, I, I prayed a prayer with someone recently about the, the self loathing, the self hatred that she did fall into without even knowing it, that she was speaking over herself and confessing that, and, you know, asking God to speak to her about that, and for her to forgive herself, for that, knowing that God wanted her to be free of that and to forgive that. So we, it is important to pay attention to the things that we’re telling ourselves that could be feeding into this. You know, so that that’s really huge. Like, what am I What am I thinking, What am I telling myself and what’s true?

Josh 19:38
What just a real practical example for those who exercise in one way or another like I know there’s a difference if you’re, if you’re trying to lift weights, and you can’t lift very much. And you say to yourself, I’m weak, that you can do two things by that. One thing you might mean is I am a weak person. That’s why I can’t lift this as a kind of a definitive statement of yourself, that’s an unholy agreement. The other way you can mean is like, today, I’m not strong enough to lift that weight. Those are two different, very different postures. And yeah, they’re, you know, they sound the same on the on the. And so in the same way, if you think it’s spiritual level, like, I’m a sinner, what what do you mean by that, like, Well, do you mean like, this is my lot in life, I am a sinner, and I’m always going to sin the same way as I am today. That’s an unholy agreement that belittles the power of the work of Christ, death and resurrection for you and the power of His Holy Spirit in us come to sanctify you. If you mean by that level of humility, like, as I examine my life today, I see that I have sin. And it’s it runs pretty deep. There’s just a different posture as we keep our eyes on a price there. So yeah, so so unholy agreements, speaking, I think they said speaking, you know, death or struggle over yourself, I think there can be some truth to that. So the fix for that a quick just tweak in our own thinking that we can practice is today, I have struggled like that. Today, we just talked about what’s what has been actually real, as opposed to, this is my struggle, I will always struggle like with this. Another area, I think, related to that, would have to do with with warfare. And I think that there are ways that people sometimes what God is, after in someone’s life is teaching them to stand up for themselves against the evil one, that the enemy is called attempter. He’s called the accuser. He’s called the liar. And when we there are ways that we can come along and kind of commiserate with what he’s trying to do in our lives. Instead of standing up to him, Adam and Eve, were meant to stand up to the serpent instead of in the garden and say, No, no, no, no, you’re full of crap Get out of here in God’s didn’t get out here. We can do that today. And this is exactly what Jesus did in in the, in the desert when he was tempted, he said, No, it is this is, let me tell you what’s written. I hear what you’re saying. Let me tell you, let me tell you. And I think that that some of us walk around and the enemy whispers in our ears and says, You can’t resist this, if you if you resist it, you know what’s going to happen? temptation is gonna get stronger and stronger. And eventually, you’re going to give in, you might as well just give in now. Yeah. And we say, Ah, you’re right. We kind of look at our limited experience. And we say, the enemy is right, as opposed to trying to see that through God’s lens and saying, like, that’s what’s happened so far. But in Jesus name. Yeah, that’s not what’s gonna happen today.

Kit 22:32
And we can fix our eyes on something and really believe that in this world of pain and broken heartedness and disappointment, that this thing, this behavior, this act is going to be the thing that’s going to help me and make me feel better. And that’s, that’s a lie. You know? And, and, and the truth is, God is the one who’s going to help me, my eyes fixed on Jesus and his power and his love and His, you know, redemption, that’s what’s going to help me. And so just, you know, again, paying attention to how we’re thinking, how we’re viewing, you know, what’s really true? And what’s going to help us in our time of need, we’re in a, we’re in a time of need, we have pain, things are hard. What’s going to help me what’s the truth?

Josh 23:15
Yeah. So what we’re pointing out here is there are different levels of temptation that go along with a, maybe the most poignant temptation. So if sexual sin is the temptation that you’re wrestling with, they’re probably likely also other temptations to get you to agree with something about yourself or about your future or about God. And the attempt or is tempting you and you just and so, you know, just a simplistic prayer in those moments is in the name of Jesus. No, in the name of Jesus be silent. Yeah, refuse to listen to lies anymore in Jesus name. And then you tell yourself the truth. And you call some other people say, Did you pray some truth over me? Yeah. It’s one of the reasons I think worship is so powerful when you are seeing words that are true about God. She’s made. Yeah, it doesn’t. But there can be battle, you know, there was battle for Jesus in the desert, but what we can learn to do warfare, yeah, what’s another reason any other things come to mind for you, you think about why, you know, a struggle going on for somebody that’s not just rooted in some other problem they’ve got.

Kit 24:20
Um, you know, I think we get very busy and distracted I guess this is tied to the other things, but you know, I think we, we don’t take care of ourselves, you know, we we just keep running and rushing. And, you know, we don’t stop long enough to have self compassion, take care of ourselves. And so we, we get caught up, we get caught up in all kinds of ideas and, and, and behaviors without stopping long enough to say, Wait, wow, I’m exhausted. I’m overwhelmed. How do I take care of myself? How do I let God take care of myself? How do I make some different choices here?

Josh 24:59
What are you saying? And you’re saying that just like, you know, getting a good night’s sleep or taking care of the body that God has designed that there’s actually a maintenance that’s required, like those kinds of things can actually help us in our battle against temptation. Why?

Kit 25:13
It’s so funny, isn’t it? Because we do, it’s just we get so there’s gotta be something more sophisticated about all this. But no, actually, there is incredible power to sleeping well, eating well, keeping moving, you know, spending time outside or with God, or whatever it is, you know, there’s so much life in those things that we can do for ourselves that prepare us for the battle that life can be.

Josh 25:42
Yes, yeah. And I’ve heard people say things like sleep is warfare. Yeah. And, and lastly, they’re not talking about sloth sleeping too much, or, you know, laying at home all day with the shades drawn. But here’s, here’s the practical way to think about this. If you are not caring well for your body, your body’s gonna cry out for some type of care. And it’s going to automatically think about the places it’s felt alive and healthy and good before. That’s your body. sexual sin, makes your body feel alive. sexual sin helps your body to feel relaxed. If you don’t have habits in your life, where you’re getting enough rest, we’re getting enough exercise exercise helps to reduce anxiety. And boy, we do we need that in our lives. I mean, so again, don’t we’re not seeing through the grid of like, hey, God’s holding out healing because you’re not doing enough. That’s not what this is about. It’s but but God cares about your body. He cares about your heart and your mind. And so are there some things he might be inviting you into the care for yourself, the way he cares for you,

Kit 26:46
because the choices that we make when we’re exhausted and on the fly? Right, Mike might feel good in the moment, they might bring that rush of whatever we’re looking for, it will not last. It won’t last, you know, where I’m going habits. I’m really stunned at the power of good healthy habits in my life. It really kind of stunned, you know, and how these ways of living are incredibly powerful to the bigger things.

Josh 27:15
I’m stunned by the by the incredible power of unhealthy habits in my life.

Kit 27:22
I can only know the healthy ones, because I know nobody wants. That’s the point though. Right?

Josh 27:27
Our habits healthy and unhealthy have power in our lives. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So here’s, here’s another one. And we’ll wrap up with this one. And this was a little bit more complicated. We could do a whole series on this, there are books written on it. But I think one of the other reasons that we may continue to fall in that God is not simply snapped his fingers and made our temptations and troubles go away, is because there’s some deeper wounding in our lives, that that requires attention. Jay stringer and his work, points out Mark laser pointed out, others have pointed out over the years, Andrew cummiskey, in his living waters material, Bob Reagan in his path of wellness material, people have pointed out how the our experiences when we were younger, our experiences in in, in our formative years, and even our experiences today, but can can twist and break and hurt us in ways that make it more difficult for us to make healthy choices today. And so, you know, a simple question might even begin. I mean, just a surface example of this would be if you’re struggling with sexual sin. What did your parents teach you about sex? Did they teach you about sex? What do they model for you about sex? What did you learn from your mom or your dad about what it is to be a man what it is to be a woman? And you don’t have to scratch that surface much before most people will recognize like, well, not much, or they taught me this, but they showed me this and but even goes, you know that that goes much, much more deeply than that. And so some of some of what God may be doing is just inviting you into a season of curiosity about your own story, what’s happening under the surface of the waters of your life? Why are you attracted to things you’re attracted to? Where did you pick up the habits you picked, picked up? And what might God be inviting you into?

Kit 29:22
And until you really sit and either write out your story or tell someone your story, you don’t realize how many dynamics there are with parents, with siblings, with friends, with other relatives with school with the experiences you’ve had of any sort. There’s just so many things that I know when I first started telling my story. I was like, Oh my gosh, I have never thought of that. I never realized that. And so it is really a beautifully freeing thing and painful to at times for sure to tell your story. But you know, that’s one of the things that we love to do. It it region. aeration is, is invite people to come in and tell their stories and listen and help them to notice some things they might not reflect. And all of these things we’ve talked about today are things that we appreciate being able to do with people in coaching. And so, you know, if you’re some of these things resonate with you, and you’re like, I don’t know where to begin. I don’t know how to do that, you know, reach out to us. We would love to come alongside you in that.

Josh 30:28
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for that kit. So listeners, listen. The answer to the question, why do I continue to struggle when other people have been freed so quickly? The full answer is we don’t know. God knows. And he cares deeply for you in that he’s not impatient. He’s often much more patient than we are. And it’s a it’s a great question for him. Not Not one out of desperation or desperation, but, but to a loving daddy. Hey, hey, Father, I keep falling. Help me, would you show me Why would you leave me in a better path? And share with him your weariness and confusion about it too? And don’t forget that question we share at the beginning like God, how do you feel about me right now? How do you feel about even while I while I fall? The answer to that could be a sad and healing to your soul in ways that you can imagine. So Jesus, we just returned to you as we wrap up this podcast. We looked for you on the cross your cross your crucifixion word is is a short answer to our question about Do you love us? Do you care about us? Do you care that I keep falling? Have you seen that I keep falling? Or do you care that I’ve tried for so long and I continue to struggle? towards seeing you on the cross answers the question. Would you help us to see the Lord help us to know your heart? Lord, you pray for the sister who who wrote in we pray for freedom for her in Jesus name. Lord, we pray for more light. Bring your love and your light to our dear sister. We thank you for her honest and good question. Or thanks for loving all of us. We pray all these things for for our good for the good of those listening. And for Your glory Lord Jesus Christ, the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen.