Josh 0:02
The cross is more than just a historical event. The Christians remember, it’s more than just the day that God expresses great love. It’s more than just the day our sins were forgiven. Both those things are true about that day. But what Jesus did on the cross is a help and a power for us today in the present and when we can access what he did for us on the cross in prayer, in fact when we do that it can transform our lives today. And that’s we’re going to talk about, kit Elmer and I hear again, and kit I remember when we first started talking about doing these podcasts, one of one of the reasons we want to do do this, one of our The heart behind it was, we’re seeing things happen. We’re having conversations, we’re teaching things in our groups and in our coaching sessions. And we just really wanted to bring it to to a wider audience, and how we use the cross how we we learned to use the crosses and original regeneration, how we we learned to use the cross in prayer and healing prayer is one of those areas and a really big part of that. So yeah,

Kit 1:24
yeah. And I really appreciate this conversation, because when you brought it up to me, I was like, wow, yes, I need to understand more of that. It’s so true that we get numb or we just get stuck. Or we learn certain things, but this idea that it is, it is a help to us right now. It is a spiritual power that we can have access to in some very meaningful ways in our life. I really am looking forward to talking about this.

Josh 1:58
Yeah, I think it’s it’s it’s both a help to us. It’s also we need it. And I don’t know for sure. But I think that there’s something spiritual that the cross and the power of the cross the full scope of what Christ has done for us in the cross. I think it’s kind of fading into the background, even in churches in some ways that are indicative of the enemy really wanting to hide and kind of veil some of the power of God working in our lives today. I remember that the church tradition I grew up in, there was a cross right up in the front of the sanctuary, it was, you know, it was there, but it was kind of decorative and, and my impression of what I heard from, in that, in that faith tradition, was kind of like the cross is something that you remember, it’s and as you remember it, you’ll be grateful for God’s love for you and and then that will motivate you to live differently. And that’s true, but it’s so it falls so far short of the power of the cross active and activated in their lives yesterday, so so we’re gonna talk about so but there’s no way to talk about something as powerful and profound and cataclysmic as the crowd In the 30 minutes we got so we’re just going to cover three areas we want to talk about really listeners with how you can access the power of the cross in your life, how you can incorporate it in maybe a new ways into your prayer life into your your life with God. And we want to talk about specifically three areas where where it can really begin to bring a big difference for you in in how you’re living and what’s happening for you. So you want to share with those are?

Kit 3:28
Yeah, there are three big ones. I mean, I wrote next to my notes, as I was reading through this Wow. Because the three hearts sanctification, healing of wounds, and new identity. I imagine that each one of us as we hear that, I want to long for a deeper understanding and power in our life as it relates to sanctification. How do I do that? What does that mean? How do I cope with it? Good, and healing of wounds, you know, like many of us carry them around, we don’t even know we have them and we want somewhere to go with them. And new identity, you know, like we many of us, including myself carry things well into our adulthood. That still weighs down. So how do we continue to let God show us who we really are? And so those are really three significant areas for us to talk about today.

Josh 4:26
Yeah, yeah. And that’s part of what I mean. Well, we’ll get back to that, maybe, but so let’s, let’s just we’ll dive in. And we’ll kind of unpack this as we go. But for each of these three, you’ll notice that we’re going to talk about we’re going to use the words that talk about an exchange, we’re exchanging something and we’re going to say things like, coming to the cross or bringing something to the cross, and we’ll unpack a little bit for you what we mean by that, because, you know, where’s the cross So, but the first is the area of sanctification and i think i think a lot of us if we grew up in Christianity, or maybe it’s just kind of the way that We’re taught, we think about the cross thing Well yeah, there’s forgiveness there. Like my, you know, Christ took my sin on the cross. And that’s true. Like First Peter 224 Jesus himself for our sins and his body on the cross first john to to Jesus is the propitiation for our sins. So we think about forgiveness through through the through the cross, but I don’t know that we think as much about how the cross actually doesn’t just doesn’t just take our sin it actually or take our take the sins we’ve done, it actually helps to remove sin in our life and change us to be people who are more like Christ. And so that’s, that’s what we’re going to talk about, how does the How does the cross do that? And so the the verse I want to kind of Park on a little bit with that is Romans Six, five through seven? For if we have become united with Him Jesus in the likeness of His death? Certainly we should also be in the likeness of His resurrection. Knowing this that our old self is crucified with Him in order that our bodies have sinned might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin for you as died is freed from sin. And so the reason I bring that up is because I wanted things that we can do in prayer is to agree with this passage to agree with what God has done by let me use this word we’ll unpack a little bit imagining or seeing ourselves bringing our sin to the cross, uniting ourselves and our sin with Jesus on the cross and then receiving from Jesus His righteousness and holiness. So Kitt help me unpack that I just kind of you know through some rationale behind it, but

Kit 6:36
yeah, I remember the first time that I heard about this idea of pressing You know, my wounds my hurt my into the cross. I didn’t know what that meant. But as I experienced it, and experienced it with others, it’s it’s so powerful because our what we carry this desire this need that we have to be changed and trained. Formed is physical. Right? Well, it’s emotional and psychological. But I’d never thought about the physical idea. And so the first time I imagined myself doing that, and then and then helping somebody else, it was very powerful. And so maybe, in order to experience this, some of these, the listeners might want to even, you know, do that with Jesus. Imagine, you know, pressing their wounds into the cross, to be able to experience it, but I think it’s it’s a different way of thinking about it. And it’s another deeper layer, again, to understand what this really means.

Josh 7:37
Yeah. And as we said, it’s another podcast, but it bears repeating here. our imaginations are a gift from God. And there’s reason for imagination. I think a lot of times when we use the word imagination we’re thinking about is kind of Disney and fairy tale and things that aren’t real. But the imagination is not just about the imaginary the imagination is a tool that we can utilize for the purposes Have faith because Faith is the assurance of things hoped for. That we always get this wrong. fazes me. I’m going to mess it up but but it’s it’s the issue, it’s it’s knowing what’s unseen. And the imagination helps us to conceive or take hold of that which is unseen. And so I really believe the imagination, rightly lined up with God’s word and God’s truth is actually a tool of faith. And so,

Kit 8:26
yeah, it’s just that idea of seeing our sins, you know, imagining them being absorbed, like, That’s right, very powerful word absorbed, you know, like he can receive them, He died for them, he can do something powerful in the moment right now. And you know, the other thing I say about Josh is, I think when we think about sanctification, we all go ha, you know, but the reality is that, look, if for those of us that are parents, we would never think that our desire to To talk to our children and guide them and steer them away from things and forgive them, would it all be a burden to them? Right? We would think that means freedom for my child and I love so much and that’s what Jesus is doing for us is not a burden and it’s not judgment. It’s not like Oh, let me watch you suffer for the sins that you committed. No, it’s like I have freedom for you here.

Josh 9:26
Yeah. Yeah, and I want to I want to come back some you said a minute ago to Kitt when you talked about our, our bodies, with you know, we sin with our bodies, and I think there’s sometimes the idea of forgiveness or sanctification can just feel very conceptual kind of ethereal in some way. And so picturing myself bringing, so say, I’ve I lusted after pornography, seeing myself bringing that saying that pornography and and pressing it into the body of Jesus with humility with gratitude, because he became sin so that I might become the righteousness of God in him. So I’m just agreeing in that, in that kind of picturing with what Scripture teaches, he actually did for me, that makes my it turns this, this concept into something that is very poignant and real to my experience. And I need that I think we all need that. And, and it’s and we do it in with a posture of prayer. This isn’t just about imagining something so that we can kind of get a sense of it, that can do that. But but also is it’s a kind of prayer where we’re really, Lord, I’m bringing my son this thing I did. I release it now into your body on the cross Jesus, and I want to receive from you and to see that happening and then to receive from him his capacity to to see people rightly to see people with eyes of love. And when I say prayerfully I mean both that we can actively participate by imagining picturing what we know Christ is done, but we can also wait with anticipation like Lord show me what does it look like what’s happening here as I bring this to you? And come expectantly that that really the power of the cross what he did 2000 years ago is active for me today.

Kit 11:17
Yeah,

Josh 11:18
so, so listeners if did you last? Bring your lust to the body of Jesus and receive from him his eyes? Did you use someone sexually, but press that into his body on the cross and receive from him? His self sacrificing love? Did you lash out at somebody in anger, where you selfish, and press those things into Jesus body on the cross where he took your sin became your sin. So you might become the righteousness of God in him and receive from him His righteousness, his temperance, His grace, his generosity, those things and be with him there and see what happens

Kit 11:55
and the power of confession really bringing the sins together. Like we thought talk about that, but we think about it, I think it’s kind of a painful experience to confess to stuff. Once again, I think it is a chance to be free, it’s a chance to confess it, to let it in reality, honesty, you know, real vulnerability come up and and then allow Jesus to absorb them into his body into what he did for us. It’s a very different kind of thing. The language can sound the same, but it’s a very different experience.

Josh 12:29
Yeah. Okay. Would you share before we go on to the second one, healing wounds? Would you share a little bit what you’re saying offline about? You said it’s, he said something about the intimacy of this kind of exchange. Can you say something about that?

Kit 12:44
Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, again, we think that this is some kind of burden, but it’s a gift of love from God. And it’s a chance for us to say, God, you are the one who loves me and sees me understood understands me created Me, I’m going to trust you with these very real deep things. And you are going to receive them from me. You’re going to take them and you’re going to absorb them and forgive me and love me and restore me and bring me to a different place than I was before. So talking about intimacy, you know, talk about someone seeing you understanding you, being with you in something accepting you just for who you are. And then he has the power then to actually redeem.

Josh 13:34
Yeah, yeah, thank you. So let’s talk about healing wounds. And I think listeners will maybe even get a sense of where we’re going with this. Christ on the cross was wounded, mortally wounded. And we can therefore bring our wounds the wounds we’ve experienced, whether physical or emotional, relational to Christ on the cross for healing. Isaiah 53 for surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. I mean, he is well acquainted with the things with the grief and the wounds that we carry. And I think about a few different categories here. One, I think, as we bring our wounds to Jesus on the cross, the first thing that comes to mind for me is that we’re no longer alone with our wounds. I think a lot of times, the wounds we carry can feel very isolating for us. Yeah. And when we come close to Jesus on the cross, we there’s a sharing that happens there. There’s a we’re coming to a wounded one, our wounded Savior, loving wounded Lord, and, and there’s an intimacy that takes place there because we’re coming as wounded ones to our wounded Savior. And I can’t describe better than that. But yeah, I think also our wounds can come to have more meaning there. I mean that he brings a redemption he doesn’t he doesn’t undo what happened to us. But he can transform it into something that’s meaningful that he can he can withdraw the toxic shame that comes with some of the woman’s experience. Yeah. And he heals.

Kit 15:10
Yeah. And he invites us. He says, just like, I want you to bring your sins, I want you to bring your wounds, I want you to be able to admit them, I don’t want you to pretend they’re not there. I don’t want you to cover it up with, you know, all kinds of things that you might want to cover it up with, you know, image and striving or pretending you know, I want you to honestly bring it to me and I and I know how much you need it. So I, you know, I invite you, I want you to let the hurt come up. Let the anger come up, let the sadness come up, and I’m here. I’m here to receive it. And again, it’s not just a wishful thinking thing. Okay. That’ll be great. Maybe I’ll feel a little better. No, they’re actually spiritual power again, right.

Josh 15:56
Right. Right. I mean, come expected. With a posture of Christ through His Holy Spirit is present right now wanting to instill to you give to you, in part to you what Jesus did on the cross for you. This is real stuff. We’re not this is not a fiction we’re trying to talk ourselves into. God is here to do these things for us. And can you edit your story? Think about this. Can you share that?

Kit 16:24
Oh, gosh, it’s one of the most precious memories I have. With a client several years ago who had experienced a remarkably pain, painful, deep betrayal. And during a time of prayer, she was giving it to God. She was pressing her wound into Jesus in whatever way she knew how and she was asking him to take it to help her understand it, forgive it And in the moment of prayer there was I think there was some silence. And she looked at me and she said, I see Jesus on the cross. And we both just started weeping. I mean, it was a sacred moment that’s a little bit hard to transfer into language. But his this, the Sacred Heart of Christ was right there. And I was so moved by her response, her her ability, you know, through God’s Spirit to to actually receive and move from where she was, to this moment. It was just remarkable. I’ll never forget it.

Josh 17:51
Yeah. There’s that. I mean, what’s coming up for me as you’re saying that, again, that there’s a it’s a supernatural mystery. It is, you know, Jesus, Jesus, the Son of God, God in the flesh died on the cross 2000 years ago, and yet somehow that’s this is a Crux in the in the space time continuum of creation, that things like our sins today, our wounds today, our experiences today still go there. There’s I mean, the somehow he reaches, he was outside of time is still working through the power of the cross and power of the resurrection. And I’m, you know, maybe I’m making, you know, too, too much of this in the sense of trying to get my, you know, philosophy around but, but I think the point is it’s it’s not just a what’s the word? It’s not just a doctrine. It’s It’s It’s there. There it is. Yeah, our Savior is real. Yeah.

Kit 18:54
And, you know, it took such courage for her such courage to allow herself to feel She had to actually go there. She had to go there, to feel the depth of it, in order to invite God into that depth in order for her to experience that, so it takes a lot of courage and and yet God gives it to us if we’re willing, you know, he will give it to us. He’s we’re not doing it by ourselves or not mustering it up. But if we’re willing, he will lead us and He will show us.

Josh 19:29
Yeah. And I think especially we’re talking to some of these deep wounds. listeners, please hear this with a from a pastoral heart. I encourage you to find someone that you can pray with somebody who can be there with you and, and help listen with you. For all of these things, I think so. Yeah. So let’s talk about the new identity. So this is the third of the three we’re in talk about. We’ll end with this one. But we talk a lot about identity here because it’s we believe that so much of what we struggle with we are struggling with our Our sense of ourselves out of a sense of who we are. And, and when we talk about bringing our old or faulty identity to the cross and receiving a new identity. This actually, when we come to the cross, it actually goes in stark contrast, I think a competing idea that the world has for us and to the church, I think, in many ways is picked up. And it’s kind of an idea that, that, you know, we don’t really change, that no new life is really necessary that God sees us in our fallenness and our brokenness and kind of destroys, you know, kind of almost like a spirit of them. You know, boys will be boys or Oh, you know, they’re only human, you know, you got a guy I accept you as you are. And he does accept us as we are, but he doesn’t, he doesn’t just leave us there. The the message of the gospel is, Christ died on the cross, and, and then rose from the dead, and we unite ourselves with him, dying with him on the cross, dying through his death on the cross and being raised with him to new life. That’s a new identity. That’s a new birth. It’s not it’s not Just a, you know, little little, you know, change of adding an E on the back of our name, you know, it’s something cataclysmic and significant change there. So there’s, I think you put it this way, there’s a spiritual power in it. So yes. And I got a story I want to share a minute, but what would you say about about this new identity peacekeeper? Well, I think

Kit 21:19
the other thing that we, you know, kind of hear from the world that the church has kind of picked up as the site. It’s a kind of a superficial sort of simplistic view of the gospel like, okay, yes. You know, Jesus died and so on as well. You’re good, you know, just just just rah rah, love Jesus, and you’re good. And of course, yes, this is fantastic. You know, that Jesus did what he did, but it is not simplistic and it’s not superficial. And we can be deceived. And so you know, we need to be able to be like, willing with Jesus to let him show us what this really means. It’s just right. This is a new identity. This is like transformations is changing from our old self with all of our stuff over time into this true self that is Christ like, I mean, right? Yes. So, you know, I love when we can cast that vision, because I think we do get again numb and stuck in some of these doctrines and some of these ways that we always do church or talk about things. And there’s a tremendous amount of spiritual power and depth here that many of us could miss Camus do miss.

Josh 22:40
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think here, you know, Paul, the beginning of the book of Corinthians, in a few different ways. He says, Look, what I’m doing here, I’m not here to spin clever tails to you and try to convince you with with my words, actually, the Corinthian church, kind of some people, they’re all you know, ridiculed or insult The park as they said he wasn’t very impressive with his speech. He said, he said, I’m here to preach Christ crucified. And that’s foolishness to a lot of people, and it’s a stumbling block to other people. But for those who believe it is power, its power. And and I think when we’re talking about, like the some of the water of the culture that we think that the church has been drinking, let me let me say it maybe a little more gently, I think all of us can be prone towards kind of drinking in or breathing into the air of the culture that sounds good to us. But that doesn’t have a point on it in quite the way that we really need. And if I could digress for a minute here, I’ve been reading through the book of Acts, and I’ve been so struck and just kind of drawn back over and over again to Peter’s first two sermons. And one of the things he does in the sermons that you typically would not hear much today in a lot of churches is he basically lays out like, this is what God had planned. He was going to send the Messiah it was going to look like this and guess what You killed him, God sent him and you killed the use of the word you you did this or in another place like you handed them over to be killed. And in his first sermon, the people are listening are cut to the quick and they’re and they go, Oh no, what what should we do? And the Peters answer is not you know, running hide, you know, sorry you messed up. His answer is just as much as he has, he was very straightforward to saying you did this. His next line is, repent, believe, be baptized, because this is for you. What Jesus did is for you and so there’s that this it’s like two sides of the same sword or two edges of the same sword. One is you are worse off and you know, and the other side is and Jesus has done more for you than you know. And it’s for you. He did it for you.

Kit 24:49
And I think what’s so powerful Joshua came to my mind when you were talking about that is it absolutely is for us and we have to receive that It is also for the sake of others, right, like, so the fullness of this new identity is like this new identity for us that is going to bring abundant life and all the ways that we don’t normally think about it, you know, abundant life in peace and the sense of well being, and an ability to love. And so out of that place, then it becomes this gift to those that we also interact with in the world, which is God’s plan for others, and so the fullness of a new identity has to include both of those.

Josh 25:34
Yeah, and I don’t any cummiskey I think does a great job. And I don’t know if this original to him or not, but he’s where I learned it. He talks about that. The new identity is really about us becoming a good gift. We are meant to become whole. We are meant to become sanctified. We were meant to be forgiven. We were meant to learn to walk in uprightness, because that’s how we can be a good gift for others. Why? Well because we’re made in the image of God who himself is as It’s become a good gift for us. So to bring this back to the identity thing and get a little practical I’d say this like press your faulty identities into the body of Christ on the cross and you remember what was over his head when he was dying? It was a faulty identity that was that was put up there was a mockery This is the king of the Jews. And it didn’t mean like hey, we really believe this. It means like, you know, this is what he said they’re making fun of them. So under this faulty identity, Christ died suppress your faulty identities. In his body across were people call you names. Did insults come at you? What about your sinful behavior, those habits that you’ve been? Have they sent you messages about who you are, what you’re worth? Do you look at yourself in the mirror and disdain something that you see? Press into Christ, these places where you have a faulty identity, a lower identity and who you’re meant to be as an image bearer and beloved person of God and then receive from him your new identity in there, I’d go back to what you said earlier about weight and expectation. And you can even remind yourself or you can pray with somebody, have them remind you of things that Scripture teaches about who you are as a as a new creature in Christ. But you can also wait to listen for a personal word from the Lord. What is he who does He say that you are? Some You know, there’s a there’s a way that God says my name and and he typically calls me by this name each time he talks to me. And it means something to me, I think about revelations to 17 to him, whoever comes to Him Jesus says, I will give some of the hidden manna and I will give him a white snow stone and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he receives it so come expectantly Lord, what do you like? These are what other people call me. What do you call me? Who do you say that I am. I think there’s something something powerful for us there.

Kit 27:55
And I think it’s also really important to be willing to Like you mentioned, the names and the insults, it’s also really important to be willing to reflect on the things that were spoken over us the things that we were told, every one of us really has a lot of information there that can help us understand ways that we got lost in our identity. And if we’re willing to go back and reflect on those things, so that we can become aware, wake up to it, and bring it to him, bring it to God, bring it to Jesus, then he is able to say, yeah, that’s not true. What’s true, and then you know, that that very courageous, honest, kind of exchange is really important. And, and, and, and really, again, brings great freedom to us, as we begin to understand in ways that we really are not aware of how we’ve been stuck how we’ve been thinking about ourselves in ways that are affecting our life.

Josh 29:02
Yeah, I have a dear friend Kitt, who several years back was, was walking through a prayer time and I don’t even know that he was he was coming like, okay, Lord, I want to deal with an identity issue. But in the prayer time, he he, he saw himself wearing these very dirty kind of ripped rags. And he was coming to Jesus that way, and I think it very much reflected how he had experienced himself he had he had some significant wounds in his life, he had also done some some significant sins that hurt a lot of people that he really cared about. And he saw these these rags and he, I think he I think was the person who’s praying with said, What is Jesus wants you to do with the rags you’re wearing. And, and he had this, this impression in prayer that he was to take the rags. And so he took the rags off in this in, in this prayer time. And he, he pressed them into a wound on Jesus’s body. He just, I mean, that was kind of the visceral This image was he took these rags and press I think was pressing them into the side of Jesus, the pure side of Jesus. And it was this powerful moment of release, because the things he’d done the things that have been done to him, they were real, and they needed someplace to go. And there’s again, there’s power in Christ. Oh, and then Christ, of course, you know, over time, in that prayer time, began to close him afresh closing with with something different, gave him a different impression of who he is. He’s one of the most beautiful men I know. And I’m proud to, to know Him and always bless when I talk to them. And a lot of it’s because of what some of the things that Jesus did in this area of identity for him.

Kit 30:37
Yeah, and I’m reminded of just this this idea of the of the power of these kinds of intimate prayers and I rediscovered something that I had done a while back in my own time with God but then also with clients and have brought it back and it’s this idea of going into it story. And we went, I’ve been going into the story of bartimaeus and imagining yourself on the side of the road calling out to him. And again, that sanctified imagination. Imagine yourself there, you’re the one crying out, what are you saying? And then to allow them to get face to face with Jesus, you so imagine that now. You are face to face with Jesus and you have his full attention because you do. And he says to you, what do you want me to do for you? And you reflect and you think, and you and you tell him, Jesus, what I most need from you right now is and imagining the goodness and love of Jesus and his face, his eyes gazing on you and saying these things. It’s very powerful, again, is that spiritual power, of being able to enter into the The power of the cross the power of who he is, and all that He has for us.

Josh 32:04
Hmm, I like that. Let me so I want to close in prayer but but I want to I want to just take what you’re saying and, and run with it for just for a minute if I could, for those of you who are listening who might be wrestling with the kind of the role of, of how we picture things in prayer. I think one way to think about it is that it is like a dance You know, when you’re when you’re being led on the dance floor. If you’re you know, there’s there’s a user the man leads, the female follows. And so Jesus is leading us in a dance. The following doesn’t just sit down and do nothing. It’s not like the you know that the the lead carries all the weight. The follower is his lead, but has to has to follow. And so really what we’re talking about with the sanctified imagination, being involved in our prayers as we come to the cross, and to deal with our our sins become sanctified to deal with our wounds and be healed. To come with our faulty identities to receive a new identity, what we’re talking about is, is following the lead of Christ and, and allowing him to, to help us envision mentally emotionally what he has done for us and what he is doing for us and and you’d be surprised to find that how he moves through those times in power so so let me close this with just a prayer of blessing for those listening and and maybe pray especially into these three areas. So Jesus for those who are who are listening in or even when we were praying before we recorded I just had this impression that that maybe this podcast is for one specific person and so Lord, you know who’s listening right now? Or you know, the the areas where they need forgiveness of sin and need sanctification, the power to live differently or do you know where they’ve been wounded by other sin and where they need healing? And Lord you know the the power of faulty And identities they’ve been carrying, and where they need to hear from you, Lord, and see from you who they really are. So we pray these things into this person’s life. We pray, Lord, that the power of the cross would move into this person’s life or they’re becoming united with you afresh. And whatever they are they need right now. And that the old would would, would go down into the grave, and they’d be raised up new. Or make it so now we pray, according to the power of your cross and the power of the resurrection and ascension. We prayed in a strong and trustworthy Name of Jesus. Amen. Friends, if, if we can help you, you know that regenerations here, we’d love to pray with you love to walk with you, one of our spiritual coaches, be happy to hear what’s going on for you and walk you through whatever it is it’s been touched through this podcast. And if this podcast is helpful, please keep coming back.